OceanXplorers premieres on National Geographic (DStv 181) on Wednesdays at 19:00 from 21 August 2024.
Question:
I know you’re a deep-sea scientist and you’re introduced as such in the series, but can you just firstly give me a background and a little bit more about what that means and what it is exactly that you do?
Zoleka:
My work as a deep-sea researcher entails developing deep-sea orientated projects, and research projects, implementing them, and packaging that information into a sort of output that can advise our minister in South Africa. I work for a national department ministry in South Africa. It is very diverse, as is the ocean. My portfolio is very diverse. It ranges from the administration of kicking up a project to being out in the field, but also writing up.
I also do a lot of outreach work, taking the ocean to people and that speaks a lot to the documentary, what the documentary really, essentially is. I also do some guest lecturing. I mentor. So it’s quite broad, but essentially my job entails looking at which animals live on the seabed, why they might be there, why it might be influencing their occurrence in a particular area, and how those animals sort of vary as you move along the South African maritime domain, the ocean.
Question:
OceanXplorers is a beautiful series to watch. Everything looks so seamless and it’s been so well put together, but one can see that some of the things that have taken place there, like the tagging of some of the underwater species and how sometimes it went wrong, then it went right, have all been condensed into the series. So how long did it take you to film?
Zoleka:
It took us just over six months to film, that’s me thinking on top of my head. But, to actually plan the series itself, took years in the making. There was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that went into the documentary, and I like to see it as a love letter from everybody who was involved to the ocean. We are following the pathways, the journeys of these charismatic animals and they are helping us tell the story about how dynamic, interconnected, and absolutely inspiring the ocean is. So, it was quite a lot and very exciting, also challenging all the things that go into exploration.
Question:
OceanXplorers is entertaining for audiences that enjoy watching wildlife, especially marine life. The work that you are doing and the data that you were trying to retrieve in each episode of the series was important for science and for marine science. Obviously, it needed to be documented for audiences to be able to see this and enjoy and be educated but for you, it must have been quite a challenging balance. Balancing the importance of the work that you are doing from a science perspective to also being present in the filming of it, what was that like for you?
Zoleka:
Interestingly, it wasn’t that bad. As a first on-screen scientist, this was my first project of this nature. I guess it really helped that I was working with a lot of experienced people from the production side of things who just know how to hone in and bring out the best of a person. We are talking about James Cameron, who is an ocean explorer in his own right, and he does not need an introduction. We are talking about Ola from the BBC studio, The Natural History Unit. We’re talking about Mark Dalio from OceanX. So, we were just really fitted with a nice production team. My job was to just go out there and do what I naturally do with the help of some of the experts who were joining us on each expedition. The experts basically allowed us space to enter into their research and we were able to collect some very valuable information, information that helped us really color in those gray areas. It took us a step forward and because I am passionate about the ocean, as it just has this way of capturing you, it was not that challenging. I needed to worry about the science, talking, and just being present there.
Question:
Throughout the series, you had a lot of moments that I think were firsts. What do those firsts mean for science and marine science?
Zoleka:
Those firsts take us in a direction of basically understanding this environment better without centralizing ourselves, recognizing that we are part of the ecosystem. Being in a sub and going to those depths just makes you realize, as a human being, how insignificant you might be in the greater scheme of things, but how your actions have such big consequences.
The six-part documentary just really captures the essence of ocean exploration, and what it means to go out there looking for something and then stumbling on something you had not anticipated and sort of drawing yourself back to the objective. Okay, what does this mean, a greater scheme of things? The ocean is such a huge environment and each day, several of us go out there trying to pick up information that can help us draw a more holistic picture of how it operates and how we can continue to get the services that the ocean gives us. So, there are definitely a lot of wow moments, a lot of firsts for science and just really, once again, coloring those grey areas and making us understand this environment much better.
Question:
You were on the most technologically advanced research vessel in the world. Just seeing it on screen is incredible. Tell me about what it was like to work on a vessel like that, especially in comparison with other vessels that you have worked on over the course of your career.
Zoleka:
The OceanX platform is one of a kind. Like you said, state-of-the-art everything. I recall the first time I actually got on the ship, it was just overstimulation. Everything just looked like it was supposed to be where it had to be, and you could not touch it. It was just this really overwhelming experience, but like every single piece of tech, it’s only as good as the people behind it. Yes, there’s this amazing infrastructure, but then there’s these skilled people.
Working with those skilled people made me integrate easily into moving around the vessel. One thing I always do when I get on a new vessel is walk around until I get lost and find myself again. It took me longer than usual on the OceanX, but, yes, it is fitted with everything that’s anything that you would need. The people are amazing, welcoming, and always eager to share their knowledge.
There was a lot of cross-pollination that happened between the tech team and myself, you know, ideas and how can one take some frameworks of managing that vessel back home. So it was a dual, sort of mutually beneficial interaction with the people. I like focusing on people a lot because without these people, we cannot really do much. A piece of equipment is only as good as it is unless there is somebody who can operate it, take care of it, and be willing to share all that information. So, yes, it was definitely something.
Question:
In the humpback episode, you spoke about the fact that you come on expeditions like this with the “known unknowns.” When you suddenly know the unknown unknowns, what does it do for your research and the science that you are working on? Of course, it is amazing to discover things that are yet undiscovered, but my question is more about how it changes the course of your science or your research. Have there been moments where the “unknown unknowns” have revealed things that have become particularly challenging or difficult or made where you think you are going slightly different?
Zoleka:
I think not necessarily because knowledge generation, as a human being, as we grow, you increase what you know. It doesn’t really change the course of where you’re going. It just helps you be able to navigate better. As we go out and we stumble on these “known unknowns,” it is another building block to understanding the ocean environment. The ocean is so vast, so to some degree, one would expect to stumble on something that is totally new, but of course, because of its complexities and us not knowing everything about the ocean, every single piece of information helps us. It does not steer the course of our objective, but it does really make it concrete. It is building a block.
So, we were looking at hammerhead sharks and how they’re navigating, etcetera, and of course, if you’re looking at a place, you need to understand the foundation. You need to understand the house; you need to understand which direction the house is looking at. Similarly, it is just finding these different environmental variables that might help us better understand our main objective.
Question:
The big species are always exciting, whether you are underwater or topside, but you specifically, Zolekawere always excited about the ecosystem as a whole. You were always excited about the species that make it possible for the big ones that we get excited about to live and exist. What is it about that, that is important to you or that touches you?
Zoleka:
We always need a vehicle. We always need a character to tell the story, and as you say, most people are drawn to charismatic animals, but there are also the smaller animals. The habitats do not get a lot of interest or attention, like the seabed. So you’re like, oh, boring sand, but in that sand, these microbes, there are animals that live within it are really working so hard to power the livelihoods of these bigger, charismatic animals. So, I really am drawn to the bigger picture and how each and every single entity or unit, a living organism, comes together and ensures the functionality of this vast environment.
To some degree, I can relate as a human being. As a black South African researcher, you tend to get into these spaces where there are well-known people. They have done remarkable things and not to take that away from them, but there are some of us who sort of like are in the background, but we work so hard to ensure that we understand and generate this knowledge. So, I can relate a lot to the less thought-of units, the building blocks of the ocean. It just really is a reminder and a take-home message for me that no matter how small you are, you can always do remarkable and be part of something huge. You can always do the little that you can to bring about change.
Question:
Tell me a little bit about behind -the-scenes of everything. What was it that kept the fuel in your fire that kept you getting up every day pushing to do the work despite the disappointments or being tired or the challenges that came along?
Zoleka:
I guess the one anchor for me was the passion and also being surrounded by equally passionate people. We are all passionate about the ocean. We have this one objective and we want to capture it. Yes, indeed, there was a lot of fatigue, tiredness, disappointment, and all of those things. You get a sense of it throughout the six-part documentary, but not as much. There were a lot of, oh no moments, but the one thing that really got me going was the passion. For me, passion is something that pushes you to want to achieve lengths that nobody has ever. You are interested, you want to know more and with each failure, you are like, okay, maybe I need to just change my sales a bit and readjust myself. What can I do to get to that point?
So, it is very important to have a clear objective. You asked me a question about how some of the information actually changes the course of our direction. No, it does not, because if you have a set objective, I am out there going to do this. I want to see this. Of course, the microscopic details of that might change, but there is this hanging objective and it was amazing because for all of us, even the guys who are on land, it wasn’t just about us on screen and the people at sea. We were being supported by a team of people. Everybody was putting their souls, and their love for the ocean into this project. So having that very overarching objective and understanding it, and every time things get a bit, like do we go back to the objective? Hold on, what are we here to do? How far are we? So we vet ourselves. For me, definitely, it was the passion and the people around me, the fellow ocean explorers. Aldo, Eric, and Melissa are very close friends of mine. Strong bonds were built at sea and to have all of them was amazing because each and every one of them offered something different to me and my personal well-being at sea when things got tough. So, yes, it’s really just the passion and the people. People must be nice to other people.
Question:
You led some of the missions. Was there any nervousness around that, like the squid one?
Zoleka:
There’s always nervousness. [Laughs] There is always nervousness, but once again, there is passion and that drive and curiosity of wanting to know a bit more. The ocean just has this thing. Once the spell gets you, you are gone. There’s always nervousness. I would say my bravery is in continuing to do something even though I am just trembling. Obviously nerves kick in, but then once it starts going, once it’s the day, you just fit like a glove. You are like, oh, this is my natural habitat. It is so amazing. Everything is amazing. So the ocean and ocean exploration just somehow makes you lose all that baggage. Those whispers in your ears that, oh, it is going to go so bad. Oh, are you even ready? What do you know? Whatever. Once you are in that particular environment, it is like autopilot. You are just there. You are present and you are not by yourself. I wasn’t ever by myself. I had the production team, I had fellow ocean explorers, and I had the tech team. Irrespective of what it might have been at that particular time, I had somebody on whom I could bounce ideas. The nicest thing about being in a welcoming team is that there is no stupid question. If you want to ask, ask, move on. Everybody wants this to be a success. So nerves are always there. I am not going to lie. I get nervous every second. If I am going to speak, I am nervous, but once I’m in it, it just rolls.
Question:
From the minute I first saw you in the first frame that you came on screen, one thing I felt was people like you make ocean education easier for people like me because we were raised to fear the ocean. To see you get into the depths that you get into the water to conserve marine species is such an important thing because I felt like screaming and telling everyone in my little ecosystem that you have to watch this when National Geographic releases it because it is so important. I felt like one of us was there and it made the telling of the stories and the education about marine life, ocean science, and ocean marine species a little bit easier. Do you feel that way?
Zoleka:
Yeah, I certainly do to some extent. I read something somewhere that said some people cannot be what they cannot see. I guess coming up in the marine sciences field and realizing that in most gatherings, I am the only person who looks like me started to become a bit uncomfortable. I definitely do not want to be put on a pedestal. I did not go into marine sciences because I wanted to break ceilings, glass ceilings. It was more passion, interest, and really taking that upbringing and knowledge that I got when I was growing up about the ocean and sort of just trying to test like, look at hypotheses and just figure out the ocean and have a personalized story for myself. I was really intrigued by the ocean.
As you say, we grow up being like, there is a lot of fear around it, but there is also a lot of respect. The fear is more about the respect. Respect the ocean. In my trajectory, I was just trying to sort of take that respect and make it something that is understandable to me. Like, why should we respect it? Some go as far as saying you cannot protect something you do not know. I have been drawn to the ocean to just know it, and if somebody feels inspired by seeing me in that documentary Amen, Hallelujah, you know, there is more space for all of us.
I definitely did not go into marine sciences to be the center of attention. I am more of a behind-the-scenes person, but if it means that I need to put myself in those situations, and be at the forefront to ensure that marine science is transformed and diverse and inclusive, then I will put myself in those situations. There is a lot that can be said about representation on screen. There is a lot that can be said about representation in marine science and I am happy that just by purely existing in the space, it is making people a bit more inspired, more curious, and wanting to explore that field. Because when I grew up, I did not even know that you could have a career out of the ocean. So if that’s my role in that particular moment, I will accept it wholeheartedly, but I don’t want to be put on a pedestal.
Question:
In the series, in the Hammerhead shark episode, there was that moment where it was an orca versus a shark. That scene showcased the cruelty of nature. I’ll speak for the non-scientist viewers who have an emotional attachment to moments like that, but for you, as a scientist, how do you explain it or make it better, or how would you help the ordinary viewer understand that this is what needs to happen for the ecosystem to continue?
Zoleka:
First of all, as scientists, we are also humans. We also have that emotional attachment to something. I have an emotional attachment to the seabed and corals. We are humans, and you cannot shy away from the emotions and how complex and complicated those might be. Whilst the data is very valuable in terms of understanding prey-to-prey interactions and how orcas tackle their prey, what might be happening, their diet, and all of those things, there are so many questions you can start asking by looking at that footage. Nature is a cycle of life and I would not say it is cruel per se. Every start has an end.
As human beings, we have this space between start and end, and it is up to us to live it the best we can with the information and the resources that we have. When we speak of cruelty, it is a very subjective term. So when animals are feeding on each other, you must also remember that each family, each animal has a family to feed. Each family needs to pass on its genes. It is a battle of the fittest. It is an evolution in play. We cannot shy away from that in every single ecosystem, not just the marine ecosystem, but on land as well. That is just the cycle of life. I do not know how I would make somebody feel better, because for them to have that emotion, they’re entitled to it, and they need to understand why they are having that emotion. I cannot dictate what they should feel and what they should not feel, but I will be more interested in understanding why they feel in that particular way. The conversation could be around that in them sort of like understanding themselves better because for you to have an emotion evoked in you, it triggers something. There is something that has made you feel that whether it’s the past or whatever experiences. So I would be more interested in the individuals themselves. Why do you feel like this, as opposed to saying no, trying to convince them that, no, this is actually an amazing scene. It is amazing, it is science, and we are getting valuable science, no, that is not the point.
I guess throughout the documentary, there are a lot of moments where we are trying to evoke that emotion. The interest is which emotions got triggered the most. After watching it, do you feel like, oh, my gosh, I just want to go to the ocean and do A, B, C and D and I see myself as an explorer. I see myself as a scientist, or I just want to understand the ocean full stop on it, do more for the ocean. There are a lot of emotions that can come out from watching that documentary, and that’s the whole crux of it. We took the ocean and we’re telling the story of the ocean through the lens of these charismatic animals that are helping us touch on other phenomenas, touch on other animals on the seabed, on pinnacles, and on the connectiveness of the ocean. We are using those animals to tell a story and how you perceive that story and what it fuels inside of you is totally up to you. I personally do not think it’s something to dictate, but it’s something to just bring awareness and interest.
There are a lot of things that are happening right now. There is a lot of noise, rightfully so, around how climate variability is just pushing things to levels that have never been seen in the past. I think this is more of a hope story that there are still these amazing pockets that we have been fortunate enough to visit that are beaming with life. There are still these hope spots, these areas that can still be saved. We need everybody. We need all hands on deck, no matter how small or big you think you are. No matter if you think this is not your problem, it is all of our problems. That is what I hope the documentary evokes in people, awareness, passion, and inspiration.
Question:
You seem to have quite a close relationship with some of the people that you worked with on the vessel if not all. You went into some pretty dangerous territories. The regulators were freezing; you were going into crazy depths. You could see it gets darker and darker and the pressure is increasing, and you were going to that depth in the subs. Did you ever worry about your safety and the safety of the team that you worked with?
Zoleka:
It would be very naive of me to say I didn’t worry. Safety is something that you should always think of, just moving on the vessel, just walking around. We are trained on how to be safe. We also had a dedicated expert for safety. Aldo, our main man, has a lot of experience around expeditions and safety on expeditions, but not to just put all the pressure and the responsibility on him, we as individuals are also responsible for our own safety. Everybody on the expedition is. Safety always comes first. Human life always comes first. The subs are designed in a way that you literally feel like you sat in your bed. You sit on your couch, and you are watching TV like this 3D movie. The pilots are so skilled and so experienced. They know what they are doing.
Exploration, of course, requires some level of trust. I would say it requires some level of understanding of the environment that you are in. There are risks that go into exploring such an environment and there is always risk assessment. There’s training as well. The main thing is just panic. Do not panic. Remind yourself that you know what to do if something goes wrong. It is not any different from waking up every morning and going to school or going to work. It is really not different. There are so many risks associated with getting in a car, so many risks associated with taking public transport and flying on a plane, but we rarely think of those because we do it every single day. I guess exploring the ocean is not as common, but the probability of something going wrong, not to say that it is nonexistent, but there is.
However, I never want to be a person who is paralyzed by fear. If I were a fearful person, I would not have had the luxury and the privilege to see some of the things that I have seen, to experience some of the things that I have experienced to be in this documentary. There is always a push yourself to the limits, but somehow know your limits. Do not push yourself beyond that. I think we were well trained and well-guarded. We all knew what to do, and what not to do. The most important thing is what not to do. Panic is the enemy, just calm down. So, yes, I really think of that a lot because I don’t want to end up in this rabbit hole of what could possibly go wrong. We go through training. You think about it. You know what you need to do. You make sure that you are ready to respond if there is a response situation. There are risk assessments in place. You understand the risk assessment. So it’s okay, but never be a person who’s paralyzed by fear.
Question:
What is it that you would like the viewer to take away about the oceans from watching the series?
Zoleka:
That’s big. The one takeaway would be that the ocean needs us in all shapes and forms. It needs us more than ever, actually. We need it more than it needs us. It is a remarkable place. It is a dynamic place, very moody, so it requires a level of respect. The animals, the residents in that ocean, require respect. It is a difficult question because each and every person who’s going to watch this documentary is going to perceive it differently. They are going to be moved by it for different reasons, but the highlight is that the ocean needs us and we need the ocean.
We need to start thinking a bit better on how to do things. We need to be a bit more aware that we are getting a wealth of services from the ocean. So if something takes care of you, you want to take care of it. I would be really interested after people watch it and they stop me, and the one question I really want to ask people is, what did they take home? I am fortunate enough to have this very strong tie with the ocean. I work with the ocean. I work in the ocean, all of it. I grew up with this very strong tie to the ocean. I would be interested to hear what people took out of what was their take home because that is where the story is.
When you tell somebody about a nice cup of coffee, you don’t say, have some coffee, drink it, it is really nice, it’s really nice, right? You give them a moment to drink the coffee, and then you are like, how is it? Then you get the feedback. So I am interested to know, once people have taken the sip, what do they think? What do they think should happen? That is where the fun comes. That is where the ideas come. That is where the diversified ideas come because sometimes when you are too involved in something for too long, you miss the obvious because you are so passionate and you are so focused, but somebody who is passing by can be like, hey, I thought of this. Have you thought about this? That is how ideas start, and that is how innovation starts and that is what we want. We want innovative minds. We want curiosity. We want respect. We want love for this natural resource.
Well, I’ll tell you my takeaway from the series. I have two, actually. The first is that, when we talk about how deep and how vast the ocean is from just seeing it from a surface point of view, we have no idea. We have absolutely no idea. My second takeaway is that the little people are just as important, because never did I think I would fall in love with squid!
OceanXplorers premieres on National Geographic (DStv 181) on Wednesdays at 19:00 from 21 August 2024.
